Vienna, 1890's 

                                              (credit: Wikimedia Commons) 

“This voyage has been as pleasant in weather and sailing as we could possibly have hoped for, Dr. Jung.”

“You did not invite me for a stroll about the deck to discuss the weather, Professor. Please, sir, what is it that you wish to say to me?”

“I shall try one last time, Carl Gustav. We cannot end on such a note of mutual hostility. It is too painful to me and too absurd to reason that two men who have shared so much should part like this. In such acrimony. In addition, I cannot believe that you will forever remain so determinedly attached to these radical views of yours with regard to our young science. So I will attempt again to persuade you to the view that you know I hold, namely the view that these mystical intuitions of yours are nothing more than wishes.”

“One more sanctimonious lecture from a father to a son, is it? Is that what I must endure, Professor Freud? I am weary of the whole debate. Like you, I have made up my mind to follow truth wherever she may lead me. I simply differ with you on which phenomena of the many that are beckoning show promise of leading me to fruitful research. I will say it again: I think the fact that so many persons, men, women, even children, have reported experiencing events that cannot be explained by the normal laws of Science deserves at least some investigation.”

“But when we investigate each of these cases, every time we find that the visions and auditory hallucinations and tactile, olfactory, even gustatory components of these experiences are linked to matters that are integral parts of the patient’s mental state before the so-called ‘paranormal’ experience occurs. Does this not worry you? In layman’s terms, Dr. Jung, we see things we want and need to see. 

"The man who has been feeling ashamed for neglecting his mother in her final years, rarely visiting her and so on, will suddenly begin dreaming of her night after night in the most vivid imagery. He does not dream of seeing giant cats or smelling chemicals from the laboratory experiments he did in his undergraduate years. He dreams what his sub-conscious needs to be shown in order to adjust to the fact of her recent death. Or perhaps, he dreams of her scolding him for not visiting more often. But he does not dream of his property or investment portfolios. He does not dream of hiking in the Italian Alps, even though he very much enjoyed those times hiking with friends more than twenty years ago. I cannot conceive of how I could make this connection between the subconscious needs of our patients and the so-called ‘paranormal’ phenomena that they see and believe in more obvious.”

“There are far too many experiences that many individuals have had that are far too similar in content and that do not come from any memory of experiences in the patient’s past for us to write off all of these experiences as mere wishful thinking, Professor Freud. Too many people, without any prompting from any past memories, have had experiences of angelic creatures coming to visit them – even when they have never heard of angels. Too many who have seen, for another example, a benevolent woman beckoning to them in the dark, even when they have no such woman in their acquaintance. So also, there are the experiences of demons and animals, too alike in too many details for your dismissal of these people’s experiences to be acceptable as scientific. We must follow the phenomena that we meet with in our patients wherever they lead, surely? It is the relief of our patients’ suffering that we must aim for in the end. Some of that suffering looks very likely to be coming from sources that are not rooted in each patient’s past or recent experience.”

“Carl, Carl, Carl. These too, I have dealt with. The events that many seem to experience with no memories to which they apparently connect may be due to memories buried so deep that the patient cannot access them consciously. This is one of the main goals of psychoanalysis. We gradually bring the patient, by easy manageable steps, to full awareness of the demons from her past that are influencing and manipulating her daily life. Once she sees those connections, she can master them and go on to a normal, healthy existence.”

“There are still too many widely shared paranormal experiences that do not connect to any patient’s memories that we cannot explain, Herr Professor.”

“These too, I have dealt with repeatedly, Dr. Jung. Yes, many have experiences of benevolent and malevolent beings, to use your own examples, but these fit the needs of all humans. We long to believe that our universe contains angels who are watching over us and trying to assist and protect us. The real universe is a very cold and frightening place. So much so that having nightmares every night truly would make far more logical sense than sleeping soundly does. So we invent forces of kindness to enable ourselves to simply continue with our daily lives. Function and survive.”

“Then, in this view of yours, the demons make no sense at all?”

“Oh yes, they do. On them we can blame those of our actions that cause us shame and regret when we recall them. Did you spank a child, and now, in looking back, do you suspect that you were simply short-tempered at that moment because of an event earlier at work? It comforts the malefactor, in this case the father, to see a demon lurking near that child or lurking near himself. Then, the father can tell himself that he was not really responsible for his actions at the time. He can even release the memory of the action and choose to be kinder to the child from then on. So we assuage our consciences in all cases which cause us shame. As so many like to say in Europe, ‘the devil made me do it’.”

“And the thousands who have reported seeing the Holy Virgin – or being healed at Lourdes – or seeing Jesus – you claim these are all just common human needs, little understood and poorly expressed, running amok!”

   

                                              Freud's waiting room 

                                                    (credit: Wikipedia)

“Yes, Carl Gustav, yes. In their endless creative variety, these experiences could occupy all the psychological researchers in the world for all the rest of time. We could work at nothing else for generations. In the meantime, people would be suffering really painful symptoms in this real world, and getting no help from us. At that point, what would be our purpose here? I see none. A criminal waste of our educations and our energies. I cannot be part of it.”

“There are patterns and constants among the reports of these phenomena, Herr Professor. Patterns that simply cannot be written off so easily.”

“Patterns that can be explained. ‘Written off’ is not a way to characterize the manner in which I and so many of our colleagues handle these phenomena in the patients we see. The patient’s suffering or euphoria in every case is very real. To him! But in reality, the experience is an illusion. There are no angels!”

“You cannot say that, Herr Professor. The possibilities are many, and they need investigating. I myself have dreamt of future events and seen them come true. It is this, in the end, that separates us, I think. You are not an imaginative or emotional man. Thus, I now must depart your company. I will not seek it out again. This is the end between us.”

 “Then farewell, my young friend. I have never, and I will never, love another man as I have loved you.”

“You control the things you love, Professor. Then …they can never leave you. It is a common neurosis. Mostly found in women, as I know you are aware.”

“That self-serving diagnosis I cannot tolerate. This is indeed farewell.”

“People all over Europe report these experiences that we have been speaking of, you realize.”

“In the Orient, where cultures are so different and myth characters as well, these so-called ‘experiences’ are unknown. For heaven’s sake, does that not worry you?”

“Ah, but your reports are not accurate. In China, thousands do indeed have these same visions and dreams and so on.”

“Your reports are false, Dr. Jung.”

                                

                                                           Sigmund Freud 

                                                      (credit: Wikimedia Commons) 

“So either I am a liar or my trusted friends are?”

“No. I do not say that. But they are seeing and even seeking out what they want and need, subconsciously, to find. There are no angels! Intelligent men are not somehow above this imagining we are speaking of. On the contrary, they’re the most creative at it of all those who make delusions for themselves. And the most determined.”

“So I am but an overpaid, well-educated dreamer? That really is the finish. Good evening, sir. From this time forth you are a distant colleague with whom I painfully disagree, but that I, nevertheless, treat with civility. I hope you can accord me the same.”

“This madness will destroy our young science, Carl!”

“So now I am a vandal as well as a fraud and a liar! Good night, sir!”

“Must we part this ….”

“Not another word, sir! Good night!”

“I am …. Will you walk away from …? Alright, then. Goodnight.”     

                                       

                                                                     Carl Gustav Jung 

                                           (credit: Wikimedia Commons)